lunar2

Sep 20 2011, 10:37 PM

yes, an ssj defeated frieza. that doesn't mean that EVERY ssj can defeat frieza, just like it doesn't mean that ONLY an ssj can defeat frieza.

frieza is not automatically weaker than any ssj he runs across, nor is he automatically stronger than anyone else he runs across.

and, btw, frieza is never mentioned in any legends, saiyan or otherwise.

lunar2

Sep 20 2011, 07:28 PM

according to the daiz entry on ssj3, ssj is a dormant ability based transformation, not a physical transformation. not counting his potential release, gohan's base power is something like 2,000 right now. you need between 30k-90k to become an ssj . i say 50k, but that's just me. gohan, since his (unreleased) base is still just 2k and some change, still isn't powerful enough to transform. and even if he did transform, he's using a full 1/8 of his true power by my numbers, counting his potential release, so ssj would only boost him up to a little over 4,000,000.

but, even assuming that he could transform, and that he did get the full 50x multiplier, that only gets him to 27,000,000 by my numbers, and 50% frieza is a full 60,000,000. so no matter how you look at it, under the best case scenaro, gohan can't win as an ssj.

Quote:

 

@5star saiyans much weaker than goku have achieved the ssj form. future trunks was just 13 when he was shown sparring, as an ssj, with base one armed future gohan. trunks later surpassed future gohan, then came to the past and was compared to goku. so when trunks first became an ssj, he was MUCH weaker than goku was on namek. and if goku had been much weaker than he was, then frieza very well could have won that fight.

Quote:

 

ssj goku: 150,000,000

100% frieza: 120,000,000

ssj multiplier: 50x

these are all official, stated numbers.

so base goku was 3,000,000, and any saiyan with a base of under 2,400,000 will be weaker than 100% frieza as an ssj.

gohan was weaker than 2nd form frieza, except when in a rage.

base gohan <= 1,000,000
ssj gohan <= 50,000,000

50% frieza = 60,000,000

the legends don't matter. based on the official power levels and multipliers, gohan on namek can't possibly beat 50% frieza.

5star

Sep 21 2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

 

@5star saiyans much weaker than goku have achieved the ssj form. future trunks was just 13 when he was shown sparring, as an ssj, with base one armed future gohan. trunks later surpassed future gohan, then came to the past and was compared to goku. so when trunks first became an ssj, he was MUCH weaker than goku was on namek. and if goku had been much weaker than he was, then frieza very well could have won that fight.

Wait, wasn't this some special?

Well, your probably right..

Quote:

 

ssj goku: 150,000,000

100% frieza: 120,000,000

ssj multiplier: 50x

these are all official, stated numbers.

so base goku was 3,000,000, and any saiyan with a base of under 2,400,000 will be weaker than 100% frieza as an ssj.

gohan was weaker than 2nd form frieza, except when in a rage.

base gohan <= 1,000,000
ssj gohan <= 50,000,000

50% frieza = 60,000,000

the legends don't matter. based on the official power levels and multipliers, gohan on namek can't possibly beat 50% frieza.

I hope you know I said it in spite of gohan base power..But if that trunks parts not non canon, then you win here; I had forgotten about trunk's past..

• Gohan
  
• Second Form Frieza
  
• Third Form Frieza

lunar2

Sep 21 2011, 02:04 AM

the potential release and recoome zenkai only put gohan at 450,000 by my numbers. then the frieza zenkai puts him at 540,000. i always give gohan the bare minimum zenkais, because he's only 1/2 saiyan. human's tend to get weaker when recovering from serious injuries, and i think that would somewhat mitigate the zenkai process. we know for a fact, though, that gohan never got a super zenkai, even when he meets the criteria (either rapid healing, high initial power, or back to back zenkais, take your pick) that causes them. cell didn't get a super zenkai, either, and he also met 2 of the 3 possible requirements, so i think it's a safe bet that hybrids have weaker than normal zenkais, and never get super zenkais.